Wow! So much for the wonderful "achdus" plan of Crown Heights!
There has to be law and order...somebody has to take responsibility for these people. But, why end it in a fight? Especially from a group that is supposed to protect us!
I'm confused.

If you remmber one shabbos ago 3 of the hada fight in 770 with somone from the shchuna. And they are shmira.

Listen they are a group of loose cannons that like "action" so i wouldent expect anyhting good from them (other then problems with the police)

you guys are losing focus of what the problem is. in recent times the violent actions have mostly been from the tzfati movement.

The svatim seem to b allowed to do everything they want. They block parts of 770 when they want , they hit people when they want , they schlep the rebbes chair around when they want, they push the benches and tables around 770 when they want( without having the decency to ask the people currently using them to move before they slam them around) , and now they feel that they can block the entrance to 770 and only allow flag wears to go in because they decided that the rebbe was coming out to give dollars. I was innocently passing by when this whole thing blew up , I was told by the flag mob that “if I didn’t want problems I should leave” ! all I was trying to do was to enter 770-without a flag!
The mashpim and “gabboim” have not seriously lifted a finger to stop them and so now it has come the
time for the silent majority stand up to this rabble and stop them. If that means that the shmira have to spray them up then so be it
By the way the hect brothers were (unfortunately ) not there.

Could these be the same that were arrested on Eastern Parkway a few weeks (maybe months) ago for beating up the guy who tried breaking in to someones house and had his hands up when they almost killed him [yes - he is still comatose]??????

First off let me clarify, I hate what the Tsfatim do and am not defending them in the least, I am just mad at what shmira did to me.

Second, The BURGLARS that broke into a Jewish building and ATTEMPTED TO MURDER the owner had what was coming to him and i praise shmira for cracking his scull, but he isn’t comatose never was it was classified as minor injuries, the burglar that got the beating is standing trial and the owner of the house he broke into is testifying against him.

But i see that you alaways report good about shmira, why are you so aginst them? and why would they beat u up?

I never knew was in shmira, i thought it was just the hershkops.

Maybe somebody can explain to me;

Why is it that when it comes to the dollars the whole world starts tumeling?

How is this any different then going for kois-shel-brocho Moitzei Yom Tov? How is it different then making a Shvil? And why is it any different then all the mishegasin that those crackpots do? Writing Melech Hamoshiach Shlita is the same ideology as going by for dollars because after all, if the rebbe is alive Bigashmyus (thus the Shlita) so why not have dollars? Why not a shvil?

Ela my, The "Normal" mishichtim (which basically means the American ones) don'[t really think that the Rebbe is alive bigashmiyus and lubavitch is going to come back to normal one day and all mishchistim will go to !@#$

rats rats

I think you all dont have the point.... why are you fighting with these tzfatim and causing hatred in lubavitch??? do you know that sinas chinam is the worst thing that can be ??? if everyone really cares about the rebbe and what is going to be with lubavitch then they would care that sinas chinam destroys lubavich more that all the crazy things the tzfatim do....but they dont care about the rebbe really they are bothered that these people are doing something that THEY dont like ...not what the REBBE doesnt like.... and therefore even if it causes fights they dont care...i mean i dont understand SILENT MAJORITY wrote ..... if shmira has to spray them up so be it and to add a little twist he adds too bad that hechts were not there...are you crazy??????? do you know that these people are yidden ??? imagine it was your brother !!!!! we always wonder how sharon could throw out the yidden from their own homes and give it to the arabs ..... .well unfortunatly we do the same we are hurting our brothers for our OWN egos not for the REBBE!!! Gmar chasima tova to all yidden and iyh mosiach will com now and we will be with the rebbe once again. AMEN

sense, I agree with you 100 percent! hopfully mosiach will come before these anties loose there minds even more!

Attn Sense:

your achdus soubnd like the peace process in eretz yisroel according to the arab side;
"we (continue) to fight the jews, but now we have some more land to do it from and now we have a paper from the goverment promising us that we wont be punished for what we do bad"

WHEN ONE SIDE IS FIGHTING THERE IS NO ACHDUS!! Tzfatim and all mishicistim are fighting so no achdus can happen.

Stam Lehair:
Most of the messianic past and current leaders including but not limited to, osdabo, nachman, the fake gabboyim, chazan... they all say that we dot hold of the tzfatim and kulom modim that the tzfatim are crazy. they seprate themselfs from that crazy group.

now i ask them this: in order to be a fanatic there has to be a basis on what to be a fanatic. the ways you tught the intial groups was that shlita bguf gashmi (tzimtzum kepsuhto and everything that you see or heard is taken kepsuto), so on that are are going extreme and saying all the way tzimztum kepshuto....

so it's all your faults that there is fanatics

SENSE wrote "why are you fighting with these tzfatim and causing hatred in lubavitch???"
sorry sense by fighting the tzfatim we are not causing hatred IN lubavitch - I do not consider them lubavitch at all.
Come to think of it, what religion are they bichllal?!

What's the difference between Shomrim and Shmira?

you are totally off your mind g-d should bless your soul its erev yom kippur dont you think you should think six times over you say something about people sinis chinam is what destroyed the bais hamikdush and by spreading loshan harah about a family in the community you should know the true facts and then talk
by the way the burgler had a crow bar and wanted to kill the owner of the house and his pregnant wife and all the hecht boys did was tackel the guy so that he doesnt kill anybody and nobody was hurt
g-d bless your soul i hope he doesnt grant you a bad year because of the pain you are putting a jewish mother and father thru because you are spreading lies about thier sons

you should get your facts straight before you publish a story ok?

you guys are sick all off you we have the whole world after us and you write this crap no one is right and who ever posted this take a good look what you are doing

Always good to know that there is and always will exist some sort of argument in crown heights. i lived there for 4 years and b"h moved out because i did not want my kids to grow up with this. having said that i think everyone should take a step back and look at the whole picture before spouting forth such venomous comments.

sense is definitely not your real name

i dont know why and what people love bashing the tzfatim! they are a group of bochurim that are totaly ibergegeben to the REBBE in a way that no beard plucking tzugepitzte movie going american bochur would ever be!

oh my gosh.... this is hilarious!!! HAHAHAHAHA !!! nebach to you all!
listen, this is what i do: lean back! just relax everyone, whether you go for Shmira, or Shomrim. whether you go for Tzfatim or Americans... Anti or Mishachist....
just chill chill chill, why does anyone have to give a %^#@! about all this. just go on with your own life. everyone is doing something with themselves, if your in school-focus on your school work. if you work, then worry about that... i dont give a @#$ about shmira or shomrim and i couldnt care less about the tzfatim or the anti's/mishachists so why do you have to care? are you making any money off of it? is it making you smarter, or perhaps wiser? i highly doubt that.
everyone, your all cool and whether you like it or not we are all brother's and so its just too bad on you. learn to deal with it. when your standing in 770 and all of a sudden you get pushed so hard into someone else because a "Tzfati terrorist" has to make a "shvil" for himself, ignore it. just let it pass. maybe make a joke like "oh, the mother ship is calling him back" or something like that... but dont worry, soon chesvon will come and it will all be over-i promise. try to get away for yom tov, or if your a true hard core chossid and must "be with the rebbe" for yom tov then just concentrate on yourself and your devotion to the rebbe.
anywayz, to all you commentors making comments i just want to tell you all one thing-and please Read carefully: CROWN HEIGHTS STINKS NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT - try to deal with it or find somewhere else to live. because this place is just gonna get worse.
shana tova to all!

I have never in my life been so intensly embarressed to be Lubavitch!!
I can not believe that these people, who are so engrossed by what the Rebbe said and that are secure in their belife that the Rebbe is Bguf, would act as complete animals...and if the Rebbe is truly here with us wouldn't they be ashamed for the Rebbe to see this outside his room non the less?!?!?
It makes me wonder, if in fact they believe with their full hearts in the whole ideology of "Yechi" how could they not listen to the most simplistic oulines of Chabad..."To love your fellow Jew".
Isn't that the basis of our belifes?
We're talking about just before Rosh Hashona and Yom Kipper. Think about it

Attn greg: Do you know that i never justified anyone for their ways... i just said it takes two to make a fight and even more a fight starts when the second person fights back .... now there is a statementthat there is a fight. when someone hits you and you dont hit him back there is no fight. That is why nekama is the worst thing even worse than starting. when there is darkness you bring in light and automatically the dark falls away..we dont fight the darkness.... just as we see in mitzrayim the people that wanted to go back and fight the mitzrim( the darkness and negitivity) we dont do that we mark forward do good and focus on the posotive

Shomrim are the rats wrote- u better watch wat u say bout shomrim members! there is absolutly nothing wrong with them!

TO BITTUL: halivay what you say about the tzfatim were true....
if indeed they were so "ibergegeben" to the rebbe, then why would they be so violent? and also, its not like one or two people think this way....EVERYONE AGREES THAT THEY ARE NO GOOD AND THEY HAVE TO GO. so who's the crazy one now? if 10 people think someone is crazy, and one person thinks 10 people are crazy....who do you think is really the crazy one? but anywayz not to get too far from the topic: The Tzfatim are NOT so ibergegeben like you say they are, (maybe some are but the majority are not). like one person said, if they truly believe that the rebbe is still alive b'guf gashmi (which is utterly insane and disgraceful but ill save that for later) then how would they be able to have such chutzpah to be so violent in front of the rebbe?! clearly these are not fully sane people. they come here every year and make a mockery of this whole community. they are violent and rageful people, they are not Level Minded thinking people, they do WHAT they want, WHEN they want to. they turn crown heights into a zoo.
ill save all the details unless you absolutely need me to explain further.
let me just finish with this: we all have our own opinions, my opinion is that Crown Heights would be a much NICER, CLEANER, COMFORTABLE and (ill even go so far to say)SAFER Place if they would just stay put in thier cages back home.
thank you very much and i am open to any comments from anyone.
let me hear what you think people. am i right? or do i need to re-examine whats going on? oh and to to the person who makes this site (webby) i think you should create a poll on the website: "do you think Crown Heights would be better without the tzfatim here, yes or no?"

to Farblundjed: he always writes good about Shomrim not Shmira. to all those who dont know or understand yet, there are TWO groups of Volunteer Patrol in Crown Heights. there is SHOMRIM and SHMIRA. the reason for this is not very clear to me. it used to be only one organization called shmira. then something happened (whats new in lubavitch) and some guys got angry and made there own patrol. now the OLD shmira is today's Shomrim, and the Shmira today is the NEW patrol. inotherwords Crown Heights Shomrim is what always was. Shmira is some 15 or 20 bochurim (could be less now i think) who run thier own show. thier advantage is though that most people think they are THE shmira because thats what they call themselvs. the whole thing is a litte fuzzy but thats basically whats going on now. and the reason why "webby" writes about SHOMRIM alot is simply because he is informed about them. am i right webby?
anywayz, feel free to ask any more questions.

to "think ok" what the hell are you rumbling about? who should get thier facts straight?

to "SICK ABOUT THIS": get a life man! what's wrong? are you embarrased of lubavitch??? SO ARE WE! webby SHOULD put up these stories!!!! if a tzfati or a guy from shomrim or shmira started to push you around you would tell anyone? im sure you would do something about it!! let him show everyone what happens here. lets get these -(i wish i could curse on this site)- out of here!
if you cant handle people knowing the truth about us... change your cloth man, become a belzer or something.
good luck living a lie.

if the rebbe is a live why do the zfatim give out the dollers, y not the rebbe?!?!?!

To "i have the answers";

I am constantly informed about them, and the reason I choose to be that way is simply becose i am proud of their work, they try to do everything in the best possible manner. and that shows on their members records which none of them have a violent crime under their belt. "Ma Shein Kein" by Shmira.

Now ill make something very clear up until this incident I didn’t have a problem with Shmira, but after this... let’s just say ill stay very reserved of what i will write about them.

Thank you all for all the positive (and negative) comments, on this site we promote freedom of speech, so long it stays clean, so people please leave out any reference to any vulgarities (i.e. @$%$%) and just have a clean discussion.

Gmar Chatima Tova
Webby,

g-d bless u all but lets not forget i am a meshugane but thease yellow flagers are way over the top and it should be cut down all their activities are crazier than me!
tiffy

SHOCK AND HORROR you are soooo messed up! if you think that the tzfatim should have ahavas yisrael.....shouldnt YOU??!! but no you are rightoues and can write whatever you want about them and curse them out. FORGET THEM THINK ABOUT YOURSELF. are you dependant on them?? does your ahavas yisreal depend on theirs??? everyone worries about other people not about themselves. I lova you man. take care and gmar chasima tova!!

Attn to PLEASE READ MY COMMENT:


i loved your comment!!!

dont forget tiffy:-) you aint meshugeh!

ATT SAMULI AL HAMSI: you sound like some guy that fell off the moon and has a lot of pair pressure! all you think about is majoroty, majoroty, majoroty.......... so maybe the majoroty of us lubavitchers are too stupid to understand some things.......dose that mean that the majoroty= stupid people, are right? noooo!!!!!!!! not at all!!!! maybe the people that are not in the "majoroty" those who you think are wrong should teach you some sense! AND ALL THOSE OTHERS WHO ALSO NEED SOME SENSE LIKE YOU! getting back on to your topick, the tzvatim are totally ibergegebin to the rebbe! perhaps like the ba'al shem tov says YOU are not ibergegebin and therefore you see it in other people! and as you say that they are voilent in front of the rebbe.....it is YOU THAT IS VOILENT IN FRONT OF THE REBBE! whatch what you say bec if the rebbe mh"m would see what you are writing you would be far more then dead imbarrassed!!!!!!!! any way I wish you a good sweet year and may the rebbe and hashem grant you some peace of mind and you shouldn't be so narrow minded and realize that the wrold is not all about magoroty!

ATTN "USE YOU-R MINDS!!" ......

lol i dont even know where to start with you, ok lets see. first of all, your spelling needs improvement ("pair pressure")??

i should note that you give off an impression of low intelligence due to your spelling and your apparent incompetence.

enough bashing. here is the main point: first, you suggest that perhaps the majority of lubavitch have it all wrong and that (how i see it from what you write) they are all stupid. ...... ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? who do you think the real lubavitchers are anyway? these tzfatim who never even saw the rebbe in real life when he was really alive?
2nd, you state strongly again that the tzfatim are ibergegeben to the rebbe. so, since when does standing on street corners and talking to girls included in "ibergegeben"?! (i have seen this myself and no, it was not their sister or cousin).
you also say that i am "violent in front of the rebbe"... please explain this to me. (i promise you i laughed when i saw you wrote that because i dont know what you are referring to). im sorry but do you know me personally, please tell me when i have been violent. you also say i would be embarrased if the rebbe saw what i was writing... well let me reply twofold, 1: i would not be, and i am not now embarrased at all because i truly have nothing to be embarrased about with what i wrote. the rebbe strongly encouraged and enforced ahavas yisroel and this, what the tzfatim do is completely opposite to that. so for me writing on that, and expressing how i feel about that is nothing to be embarrased about. 2: if you are such a strong ibergegeben chossid why don't you think the rebbe is seeing what i am typing right now? you said "if the rebbe would see"...ferd ayner! the rebbe DOES see!

to end off with a smash at you (just because it really makes me feel good): you said that the bal shem tov said what you see in others reflects on yourself. and you brought this up to try to tell me that i am violent etc. well well well my friend, what makes you putur (exempt/excluded) from that statement. "k'mayim l'panim"...
you wrote in the begining of your comment that i sound like i fell off the moon and i must have alot of pair pressure (by the way its PEER pressure), well my friend i have something to say to you. "the bal shem tov says, you fell off the moon so you see it in other people".

please tell me the truth, are you a tzfati or something? do u have family that are tzfatim?
i really think you are because A) your spelling is horrible (like 1st grade Ohlei Torah) and B) for some reason you seem to be hurt very much by what i said about the tzfatim.
peace yo not piece!

to SOME PEOPLE ALSO MAKE SENSE"
thank you! what about my comment did you like?

wow webby, you have really done it this time! hahah look at all this controversy!!!

The bottom line is this ,it doesnt matter who u go for ,tzfati or not,american or israeli,everyone agrees we have to give the Rebbe nachas ,now everyone has his different way and we have to respect each other, (like its braught down regarding the stundents of R.akiva that the reason why 24,000 of them died r"l is b/c "shelo nuhago kavod zeh bizeh) and each one has his way in understanding what their rebbe (R.akiva) taught ,we might not like what the other side does and some times we may think the other side is wrong ,but we cant let it bring to a "chilul shem lubavitch" in any way and may it be the will of Hashem that we all get signed down for a G'mar chasimah tova !!!!!!!!!!!!

to "the truth".

i agree with what you say about having to respect eachother etc.
but that doesn't take the problem of the tzfatim away. what are we supposed to do about them? they are a big pain so to speak.
i dunno, i think im gonna go to tzfas for yom yov and bring al my friends and start collecting money for crown heights.
good yom tov.

largo vive el rey de rebbe a Mesías para siempre y jamás <-- Translation: Yechi Adonenu....

to:samuli al hamsi:

you know what in regard to the Tzaftim im gonna agree with you sometimes they do cross the line ,like when they think they can make decisions of things should run etc..and who are they ? a bunch of retarts,sometimes they should be put into place ,in regard to their retardation ,its not that since they are mishichists they are retarted ,no these pepole were retarted from the start and if they wouldve been indians they would be retarted indians etc..happens to be there fanatical mishichists b/c only that side (misgichist) can they express there crazyness!! but they put all other mishichistim in a bad light ,and really they are good pepole ,and when i said we have to respect each other, i meant regular mishichistim and regular non mishichistin and i take back that u have to respect the tzaftim gmar chasimah tovah!

but btw if hes a normal tzfati which is hard to come by ,but none the less if hes normal and he just has extreme viems but he doesnt force his opoinions onto others than u have to respect him too!! only if he acts violently than u have to deal with them accordingly !!

violence isnt the only problem. a normal tzfati destroys the normal atmosphere in 770.forget about tishrei when all this is magnified even more; but during the year as well the place looks like a mental institution. filthy,off tune flute playing 24/6, advertisments like a baseball stadium etc etc. ad mosai will we allow ourselves to be shlepped around with their meshugas????? all for the sake of "peace" we sacrificed alot!! for all you peaceniks maybe you can find an alternate solution to clean all this up. Hope you all have an easy fast.
gmar chasima tova

to ""the truth"

lol i love it how you bring an example if they were indians.... cute.
anywayz, agreed with everything you said.
have an easy fast.

to PLEASE READ MY COMMENT
i loved the whole thing

by the way is your dovid??

just a little point that has been (so convientlty) disregarded, just reading how the article was written is completely biased! the writer is OBVIOUSLY very apathetic to the people who were hurt!- not to mention that these pictures are not to our VIEWING PLEAUSRE!!
PERHAPS U ENJOY MAKING MACHLOKESES, BUT I AND IM SURE THOSE WITH THEIR HEADS SCREWED ON TIGHTLY (OR SCREWED @ ALL) DONNNNTT!!

to samuli al hamsi:
its good to see we are on the same page,anyways i had an easy fast hope u did too!.take luck if u have take it and care for it ,and good luck takin care of the luck that u might have !.

to NOT SO MUCH SENSE JUST BABBLING: what do you mean "is my dovid?"? do u mean is my NAME dovid?
my name is NOT dovid if thats what your asking.

To: please read my comment.

i also loved ure comment, but i dont think this is a chatroom, so plz stop the chatting back and forth. thank you!

your right, this isn't a chat room but we can use the comments to argue with one another on our opionion. i believe this is why "webby" made the comments.