can somone explain

OK guys, here we go again. I'm sure you all have opinions out there, but let's keep this civil. Everyone's entitled to express his opinion to support his position. There is no need to disparage those holding opposite ideas or to lower yourself by attempting to denegrate anyone and everyone who disagrees with you.

As for me, I think 3 years are 3 years, and are up. The term of the old vaad has expired. Period. Everyone qualified by the rules was free to run and/or vote. The election process was “transparent” and should stand. So says I.

P. S.

Thanks Webby for keeping us informed. And you too, try to stay calm and to report objectively, except where your opinion is clearly labled “opinion”.

Go Eli, Go!!!

actually it doesn't affect any of us

Here is part of President Obama's Speach this morning:

It applies to ALL OF CROWN HEIGHTS-Rabbonim- Askonim-Toishvey Hashchuna

“I do so recognizing that change cannot happen overnight. I know there's been a lot of publicity about this speech, but no single speech can eradicate years of mistrust, nor can I answer in the time that I have this afternoon all the complex questions that brought us to this point. But I am convinced that in order to move forward, we must say openly to each other the things we hold in our hearts and that too often are said only behind closed doors. There must be a sustained effort to listen to each other; to learn from each other; to respect one another; and to seek common ground.”

Here's what happens now.
A referee is appointed. The referee is not a judge, and can only hear and make a recommendation. The referee will hear the evidence at a live hearing, and will then make a report and recommendation to the judge. Each side will then submit papers to the judge asking the judge to either adopt or reject the recommendations of the referee. Then, if either side is unhappy with the judge's decision they can appeal to the Appellate Division, 2nd Department.

When is this new hearing going to take place? and what exactly is the status quo? who is running the place now and who has the bank accounts?

BS“D
I am a big Rav Osdaba devotee since 1976, and I attended his 'shiurim' in Hadar HaTorah.
He's a wonderful and brilliant man.
But I voted. Why?
Our community is bleeding very much.
This is not an insensitive comment - it's horrible what's happening in this wonderful neighborhood - 'Kan Tzvah HaShem HaBrocho.'
I feel twisted and distorted by recent and past events.
I voted because of what The Rebbe said re: rabbonim not being involved in elections. The Crown Heights article by Rabbi N. Mangel saved me - I was in a quandry (I was saved by the newspaper that I worked for once with Yitzchock Wagshull.)
A friend told me he wouldn't vote (Mr. Tamir dropped out also.) because one rav was against it.
I told him that since The Rebbe, MH”M, said “...now and in the future,” that this is a prophecy and/or a request-order. He responded that “It's not so black and white.”
I responded that this is an error in thinking. If he believes the Rebbe is a prophet and 'G-d speaks from his throat,“ he has no choice BUT to follow the Rebbe's dictates. By denying this he is denying the Rebbe's powers (CV”S).
We have many more problems than 'tnius' in this community and perhaps, much more serious ones.
bhoffinger@aol.com

dont mention obama .he is not who we need to learn from. the arabs learn from him not us jews .

I propose a coalition Vaad.
Let them make a l'chaim dance together and make shalom!

Countries which often operate with coalition cabinets include: the Nordic countries, the Benelux countries, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Turkey, Israel, New Zealand, Pakistan,Switzerland and India.

The Road Map to peace must begin with each side recognizing the other's right to exist. Each state will have boarders, dividing the avenues and streets of Crown Heights. The shul of 770 will have a white line going down the middle from north to south and from east to west. The west bank will be occupied by Shwei while the northern front will be for Osdoba. The tzfati's and radicals to the south. The eastern front will be reserved for guests. A two state solution is the only solution to achieve peace!!!

This whole thing is the saddest thing I have seen in a long time. Our children are leaving Yiddishkeit in droves, men are cheating on their wives, and the community is taking each other to court to see who gets to control the money. GEVALD GESHRIGGEN!!!!!!!!

This whole case is stupid and silly.

Since when does any court intervene in the decision of a closed circuit election? Did qualified people (ie-ONLY from Crown Heights) vote? Yes. Did anyone bring valid proof why the elections are illegal or invalid? NO. So...How is this a case for a court to decide who is right and who is wrong?

People voted, people decided - that's it. End of story.

The Road Map to peace in Crown Heights calls for a Two State Solution. The first resolution is that each side recognizes the other's right to exist. Acts of terror will be denounced. No new forced enteries to settle into offices, and a time table to evacuate present settlements. Second stage is to divide the steets and avenues into independant states for each party. Third stage is to internationalize 770 and declare it a open to all nations. In the interm, a dividing line will allocate the west bank of the shul to the Talibans. the northern heights and the southern vallies will be partitioned, while the eastern sector will remain demilitarized for visitors and dignitaries. Each side will resolve for diplomatic solution and condem military options. Peace will be achieved in Crown Heights and in the Middle East! Amen!!

“to time go get...”
you are a bigot. please get out of Anash, you do not follow the righteous path.
Your Obama comments are out of the anti-semitic right wing.

Rudofsky, the Best lawyer, he lost everything for the old gabboim against Yudel, wasted all of money. He's a loser. Lang's lawyer Berger is no genius, but Rudofsky? Merkos is still laughing.

And how the heck can good ol Chanina hire Mendel Hendel to run the new vaad. I am leaving Crown Heights, the place is hopeless. The Rebbe would not be happy with his flock.

Forget who saif it but wjat was said applis to ALL OF US

It applies to ALL OF CROWN HEIGHTS-Rabbonim- Askonim-Toishvey Hashchuna

“I do so recognizing that change cannot happen overnight. I know there's been a lot of publicity about this speech, but no single speech can eradicate years of mistrust, nor can I answer in the time that I have this afternoon all the complex questions that brought us to this point. But I am convinced that in order to move forward, we must say openly to each other the things we hold in our hearts and that too often are said only behind closed doors. There must be a sustained effort to listen to each other; to learn from each other; to respect one another; and to seek common ground.”

The JHO will probably be Judge Ira Harkovy, the one that decided the 770 case, who is now retired and is now a JHO. There is no other JHO more “qualified”, as far as the courts are concerned.

While Berger previously dealt with Harkovy, he basically ruled against him last time. Was it partially because Fisher, counsel for Kerinsky, was head of the Democratic Party who appoints JHOs and got Harkavy his job?

In any case, both attorneys had to consent to the JHO because you don't want to go against the suggestion of Judge Hinds-Radax and then be in front of her. By the way, a Judge usually goes with the suggestion of the JHO who spent many more hours on this.

The outcome of the courts will probably be to respect the arbitration clause in the bylaws and send this to bais din. Since the arbitration clause states “Bais din of crown hights” it could bee argued that there is non and that another bais din must be chosen by ? the parties?

This will take over a year of litigation and appeals and about $500,000 legal fees for each side. That’s when Moishe Rubashkin will be out of jail v’dal. Then there will be the enforcement of the arbitration which will be challenged which can take more hundreds of thousands of yideshe gelt.

HERE IS SOME FREE ADVICE: GO TO BAIS DIN ZABLAH NOW AND SAVE A MILLION DALLARS OF YIDESHE GELT, ALOT OF HATE - SINAS CHENUM- AND CHILUL HASHEM!!! BOTH SIDES MAY WANT TO PAY A NO RISK MEDIATOR, LIKE MOISHE BUGAMULSKY ETC..., JUST TO HEAR WHAT THE PROBABLE OUTCOME WOULD BE. HEY MAYBE CHABAD LEADERS SHOULD DO SOMETHING ACCORDING TO HALACHA AND AHAVAS CHINUM WHICH BRINGS MOSHIACH!

All this is a waste of money. Instead of using it for lawsuits before Goyish courts, use it for more important things. We're tired of this battle. Votes are over wheither we agreed or not with the issue (I disagree with the vote's issue, but I accepted it).

why are all people fighting the old vaad and think the rabbi is wront bt's that have not gone to learn and where not brought up on jewish values

Mosheh you are a million percent correct.

Time to fowatd. 924 people spoke and taht is it.
Stop wasting money on Lawyers. GIve it to the needy of the community.

And we should demasnd that Rabbi Osdoba and Rabbi Schwei should get together and make Achdus between themselves and that will lead it in the entire community. If they can't they should retire, go on vacation and let's elect Rabbonim that will have Achdus for the sake of our children, grandchildren, famlies and me and you.

Its enough of this fighting..

Thanks and Have A Good Shabbos.

We all agree that this does not belong in erkoos so lets demand from Sufrin and Plotkin to take their action out of court and Rabbi Osdoba and Segal to admit that they have a conflict of interest and cannot deal with this. Rabbi Osdoba must agree to go to zablo with Rabbi Schwei like big people and resolve the issues for the sake of the kehila. If they don't care about the kehila what are they doing here just fresing $$$$? Shame on you guys!

hope you do it and fast.

Poltrack said it. He is looking for CONTROL.

and who counted the votes? that is the question...
also we need money for the poor people to send their kids to camp! not for lawyers fees, gevald!

Shlomo wrote:
“to time go get...”
you are a bigot. please get out of Anash, you do not follow the righteous path.
Your Obama comments are out of the anti-semitic right wing.

Rudofsky, the Best lawyer, he lost everything for the old gabboim against Yudel, wasted all of money. He's a loser. Lang's lawyer Berger is no genius, but Rudofsky? Merkos is still laughing.

And how the heck can good ol Chanina hire Mendel Hendel to run the new vaad. I am leaving Crown Heights, the place is hopeless. The Rebbe would not be happy with his flock.

ARE YOU BLIND OR WHAT? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WALKED INTO 770 DOWNSTAIRS?

if you be a little objective and go back a few years you will easly see the cause of all this situation.

this started right after Rabbi Marlow o“h was nifter the kehile was to big for Rabbi Osdoba which had no experience since he did almost not involved himself in communal matters.

he refused to take over Rabbi Marlow full time job and denied the request to make elections for a Rov to replace Rabbi Marlow.

when he, against his own contract with the kehila, took away kashrus the all machloikes started and the kehila structure build in the past collapsed. Rabbi Yitchok Zirkin then said ”this will cause the churbn“.

this was way before Herzog and Rabbi Shcwei.

later he had no choice and had to accept getting someone to seat in the Bais Din and answer day to day shayles and Rabbi Schwei came in and worked for about two years.

again not being able to say no, he agreed for elections but he made sure that no third Rov will be elected vetoing many many candidates and only allowing very few that did not wanted to run.

he tried many tricks that will allow him not to be overpowerd and in control.

I can go on and on but the bottom line is that he is responsible for the situation we are in today. He has no limits he can stand against Rabonim like Rav Zalmen Shimon o”a, against a Beis Din that he himself selected and agreed to listen to. He can go to erkos shel akum and get a niduy and continue as nothing happened. He refuses to go to a din toire and orders others called to din toires not to go.

Rabbi Zirkind (that recently left kashrus because of Zalmen Osdoba and surprisently got sucked into this mess) was 100 % right there is no daubt RABBI OSDOBA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS CHURBN!!!